Anne: Hello everyone. It's Anne Duffy and welcome to Dental Entrepreneur, the Future of Dentistry's podcast. I'm so happy that you're with me today. I've got a very special guest. He's a new friend, and was introduced to me by an old friend, Dr. Maggie Augustyn. But before we get started, let me tell you a little bit about him.
Dr. Eric Recker, Is a husband, father, dentist, speaker, coach, author, pilot, mountain climber, and recovering triathlete. He has climbed mountain Kilimanjaro and wants to help you conquer the mountains in your life. Please help me welcome my new dear friend, Dr. Eric Recker. Hello.
Eric: Thanks for having me.
It's great to be on your show.
Anne: Oh, I'm so glad that you're here. We had a lot of good conversations you have written for Dental Entrepreneur as we, you reminded me. It's our spring edition. We're very proud of that edition. So, if you wanna learn a little bit more about your mindset, everybody go to dell entrepreneur.com and, check out the spring edition and find Eric's article there.
we have so many. Mutual friends and same mindsets on things, and I'm just so thrilled to have you and I,I'm thrilled to get to know you. you've had a great career and you're still in dentistry. You're still in clinical, which is wonderful.
Eric: Yeah, despite trying to walk away from dentistry about five years ago, I'm still here.
Anne: Yeah, I think it's probably pretty common, Eric, but I love the message that you have, and I'd love you to talk a little bit about your burnout journey and how you almost walked away from dentistry.
Eric: So I have a story that goes way back to the playground in, second or third grade. Okay. I was told I wasn't good enough to play kickball.
I mean, it's a much longer story than that, but they wouldn't let me on the kickball field. they pick teams. I would still be standing there. They'd say, Hey, what about me? You are not good enough. you hear that line once and maybe you dismiss it, but when you hear it over and over and over.
It can really cause a problem.
Anne: Mm-hmm. And so what
Eric: happened is I had some malware implanted in my brain as a third grader, and when I stood on the sideline of that kickball field trying to hold back the tears, I told myself I was gonna be so good at everything that I ever did that no one would ever not pick me.
Anne: Wow.
Eric: So a bold statement to tell yourself at that age. And then I stuffed that As I was having some quiet time about five, six years ago, mostly during the COVID time that came back to me, that memory came back to me. And it started to make sense. I started to unpack what that actually meant, but nothing was ever good enough for me in my life.
Through high school, dental school, I was never satisfied with myself. It wasn't enough that I was in the top 15 in my dental school class. I had to be in the top 10, and then I started running just to prove something to everyone, that I was good enough. I went all the way through marathon, started triathlon, went all the way through Ironman.
Got crazy burned out on that because Ironman's a part-time job.
Anne:
Eric: training 20 to 25 hours a week in addition to working and doing all the other things that you do. When I came back, got outta dental school to practice with my dad, he didn't have a practice that was big enough to support me. So there's another dentist in town that was retiring, so he bought that dentist practice and merged the practices, you know, amazing for me 'cause I'm busy.
But I was booked out six weeks from the first day that I started practicing dentistry.
Anne: Wow. That's a lot for a young dentist.
Eric: And by six weeks, I mean, there wasn't a 15 minute spot in my schedule for six weeks. Wow. So emergency comes in, you squeeze something else. Yeah. And so that's how I hit the ground running and I had this belief.
That, that is just what dentists do.
Anne: Mm-hmm. This is
Eric: just the way it has to be. And then after patting my dad's retirement for about six years, I said, dad I'm gonna buy the practice from you. And, uh, so it was, of course he was bummed 'cause uh, you know, he had done really well for six years. I think I started producing more than him year two.
that's just the drive that I had. Yeah. But I found myself in a place where I was buying the practice from him. I was building a new clinic. He didn't want anything to do with that, but he was gonna continue to practice there. I was training for two Ironman triathlons. I was serving on five different boards, and I was coaching both of my kids in soccer.
Yeah. And I have kids and a wife. Okay.everybody says Wow. Of course. That's ridiculous. Well, I didn't go from nothing to there. I added something and then I said another yes. And then somebody asked me to do something, so I did another yes. And then they threatened because there weren't enough coaches that they were gonna cancel some of the teams, and make the teams bigger for soccer if we didn't have coaches.
So I said yes to that. So I just kept saying yes to this. And so I started saying no to sleep. I started saying no to self-care. I didn't even know what self-care was, and I just got in the grind because this is just how it is for business owners. Mm-hmm. This is just how it is for dentists. Well, I started having chest pain, started having heart palpitations, started having tension headaches.
The slightest thing would go wrong, and just like that, I would be just, ugh. And then I started having panic attacks, and I think a lot of people can relate to life being a roller coaster. So I would have the low lows. When the panic attacks would be bad, when I would not be sleeping even, I'd only give myself four or five hours to sleep a lot of nights, and I'd wake up several times during those nights and the thought popped into my head, would it even matter if I wasn't still here?
Anne: Wow.
Eric: Fortunately, I never really entertained that thought anymore than that. I have an amazing family. And my faith is really strong. So those things were tough, but it wavered a whole lot.Mm-hmm. During that time,
Anne: quick question. How old are you right now where you were at,
Eric: right.
So when that started, when all of that was happening? that was about 15 years ago, so I would've been about 33.
Anne: Okay. Okay.
Eric: At that time. So what would happen is I'dget so low and I'd start having those thoughts. And then I would, medicate a little bit.
I'd come home and, have a drink. I wouldn't have four or five drinks, but I'd have a pretty good sized drink and that would take the edge off. So then I would start to get a little bit back to some middle ground for a while, then it would go deep again, and it just, I was on this cycle of that just continuing.
And then COVID happened and I'd been too busy to think. always had so many things going on. So COVID happened. I took a little step back and I said, what do I really want to do with my life? I knew there was more for me than just chairside dentistry. So I started thinking about writing, started thinking about telling my story a little bit, but my story was still really jagged.
Mm-hmm. And then we came back from COVID and oh man, those of us who were in the ownership business at that point know how crazy that all was. And I decided after a few months back from COVID, you know what I'm done with this. It's not worth it. At some point I'm gonna become a statistic. I can't be under this much stress for my whole life.
Mm-hmm. I just expect to not have my life significantly shortened. So I talked to my associate. My associate said, Hey,yeah, I'm interested in buying the practice, nevermind the fact that he'd only been outta school about two years, and part of that time had been COVID and we have it. 18 person practice.
Three docs. Wow. Yeah. Three docs and then everybody else. And so we made plans for this, and I had a glimmer of hope for the first time in a long, long time. We were getting closer to the time when our practice broker was gonna come down and execute the sale. A month before that, my associate didn't show up for our, Monday morning meeting, and we called him no answer, called his wife.
He left at the normal time. and about two minutes later we heard sirens. And within a mile from our office, he was involved in a horrible car accident. Oh, he survived, but was horribly injured. And at that moment I started having a moment of clarity of, Hey, you are just trying to run away from your burnout.
I realized there's no way this guy was ready to buy a practice that's that big and has that many moving parts. They had to step back again and a three doc practice became A two doc practice. Mm-hmm. We were just as busy, so my other associates stepped up. She was amazing. We endured the rest of the next year.
But I knew that I needed some help. I couldn't keep running this practice by myself. It was gonna drive me into the grave. So at that point, I started writing with intention. I started. Getting a few speaking opportunities here and there just about what burnout is and how you cannot ignore the self-care portion of it.
I was able to find a partner to buy half of my practice and so now we are 50 50 partners and we make decisions together and we work together and part of that was that I would step back from four days of clinical chairside to three days. That difference has made all the difference because now I'm able to do some coaching.
I'm able to do some speaking. I'm able to fly planes a little bit more. I'm able to climb mountains a little bit more. But ultimately my goal is to help people so they don't have to live in that. Would the world be better if I wasn't here?
Anne: Yeah. You almost have to live that to understand that and the signs that.
Other people are experiencing,and feeling it's a beautiful thing I honestly feel like you're called for something bigger than just chairside because what you've been through If you're a dentist and you're listening today, I'm sure that there are many days that you felt the same way, as Eric did in,wanting to quit.
being an entrepreneur, owning a practice and,and with your achieving, persona, no mountain is too high for you. Right? We'll get to that.it is daunting that you actually discovered this. in the early parts of your career, maybe beginning of the middle of your career and that now you can really just see it for what it is.
the clinical dentistry isn't the all and the be all, and it doesn't have to be stressful and you don't have to get burnt out and get that close to thinking The world's gonna be fine if you're not there. So I'm so thrilled that you've had this. You know, they say God doesn't give it. To you.
It gives it for you. And so you have been given this, and we talked about this, you said something before we started that really struck me that there's a mountain every day, or we all have mountains in front of us. And talk a little bit more about that, Eric. 'cause thatwas, a beautiful thought and very calming, for me to realize I'm not alone.
Yeah. People see me as someone, they see a snapshot of me right now.
Yeah.
Eric: You know, I'm seeing patients three days a week. I have patients say that, well, when's is he ever in the office? 'cause my wife and I travel to Utah a fair amount. we're living life at this point.
Because that's what we're supposed to do. and sometimes it's hard to relate 'cause they'll say, oh, you climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. I could never do that. Well again. I didn't go from nothing to Mount Kilimanjaro. I went for a hike in Colorado and I fell in love with it. So I went for a little bit longer hike, and then I started developing a love for hiking.
And then I thought, what can I do with this? And the reason I tell people about that is everything that we face in life is a mountain. And one of the things I do when I give talks is at the end of it, I say, I'm gonna tell one more story. As I tell this story, I want you to envision the mountain that you're facing.
Maybe that mountain for you is burnout. Maybe that mountain for you is a marriage that you're struggling in. Maybe that mountain is an addiction that you have to shopping or to alcohol or to eating, whatever it is. Maybe it's a kid who's gone off the rails and that's the mountain you're facing. Most of the world stares at the mountains and said, that looks really big.
And that's all they do. And you know what? I can't do anything about my kid that's gone off the rails. I can't do anything about my marriage. they don't want to go to counseling, whatever it is. And we use all these excuses for why we won't set foot on the mountain.
Anne: Mm-hmm.
Eric: Once we take that first step onto the mountain, it starts to look a little bit more doable. So a lot of what I do is just helping people figure out what the next step is. And then we figure the next step after that, and then we figure the next step after that. Because my mountain of burnout seemed unclimbable, it seemed way too tall, and I just stared at it and I medicated at it, and I zoned out and I did all the things.
Except try to climb it. But once started climbing it, I found out there was actually joy in the journey. And every step that I got closer to the summit, every step I took along the path, there was a little bit of relief. So I think we need to quit just staring at the mountains in our lives and figure out how we're gonna climb 'em.
Anne: Yeah. And how beautiful to have a little help from a friend to help you take that first, I would say baby step. We can all take baby steps. but you can't get paralyzed. It sounds like you get in your own brain and think, oh, it's, it's just so big. And I love your, we had a question that what does mountain climbing and Mount Kilimanjaro have to do with life and dentistry?
It's really more about life. Than even dentistry. Dentistry is a part of your life, but if you can get it handled earlier and make that first step and then not stop, right? That's the thing. You make a step and then you stop. If you, you need somebody, you need a community, you need to reach out to somebody that kind of knows your, what you're going through and to just nudge you along the path.
it, it's so funny, Eric, I remember the very first time I went hiking. It was in actually Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and I remember I'm from Dayton, Ohio, so it's so flat. And I'm like, we're walking up and I'm like, I turned to somebody said, so are we hiking? This is hiking, right?
You're just walking. You're just walking one foot in front of the other. And I just remember it was like an aha bny, like,oh, anybody can do this. And honestly, oh, I just have goosebumps thinking about it because if you just start and you don't stop. Anybody can do it. Especially if you surround yourself with the right people.
It takes two. A lot of times I'm thinking about all the different things that you mentioned about, again, anyone listening here probably been through all of those things, or knows someone that's been through all of those life's mountains And this will be helpful for them. So I'm just gonna say, share this. if you know somebody that could use, a listen on this podcast, but you also say that we need guardrails and, you know, why are they so important and what are they?
Eric: Yeah. So I feel pretty confident that I can help somebody go from a place of burnout to a place of hope.
The problem is. As humans, the world is gonna try to drag us back to that place of burnout. And one of the things I love about your community, Ann, is that it is a refuge for people to come together. Yeah. Your retreats are a place for people to come together and share life and feel like they're not alone.
So guardrails, we see those when we drive in the mountains. A lot of times we even see 'em on the side of the highway, and the goal of those guardrails is to keep us from driving off the side of the mountain.
Anne: Yeah.
Eric: So if you hit the guardrail, yes, you're gonna have some damage to your car, but you're gonna survive it almost certainly.
And so we need to have guardrails in our life. Community is one of the biggest guardrails that we need to have. We can't walk this life alone. COVID taught us a big old lie that we're better off isolated. Yeah. And a lot of people are still living that lie, still living a life that's about this big, that's the size of our phone.
The world is so rich when we're in community. So that's one thing. That's one of the guardrails. We have to be in community with people. Yeah. I have personally, I have my own coach. I have a mentor, I have my family and I have three, 2:00 AM friends. That means people, if I'm in a pickle or if they're in a pickle, and by a pickle, I mean a really crappy spot.
Yeah. You can call each other in the middle of the night. I will give up sleep to help my friend through whatever problem they're going through.
Anne: That's beautiful.
Eric: If you don't have that, hire a coach, speak to a counselor, speak to a therapist. there are getting to be fewer excuses for why we can't be in community.
Other things like good sleep. Sleep is not negotiable. you can only borrow from sleep for so long before you fall apart. You may say that you're thriving, your blood work's gonna show a different thing and eventually that catches up. It's our self care.
It's the time that we spend in quiet. It's those little things we do to help steer the ship in the right direction. So if we have those things in place, we're much more likely to have a life that gives us hope than a life that just burns us out.
Anne: Yeah. It's, seems simple, but not easy.
Everything you just said, I think in our hearts we know that, but we kid ourselves and we need somebody, and that's the community I call my nine one one calls, right? I, you know, I'm always a 9 1 1. And I think especially as I become a sage and my kids are all grown and out of the doors, every mom I'm like, Hey, listen, just call me.
I could probably top every story you have, but there's a happy ending if you stick with it, keep your faith, And just always have hope. And that's, one of the things that you can give somebody, is hope. And I think we all need that. And that's what a coach does and I love it.
Eric Block, you know, director Eric Block? Yep. He's a great guy. He wrote an article, I think it's in the edition that you're in, which is pretty cool, about why every dentist needs a coach. Or everybody needs a coach. I mean, everybody, you know it really life coach.
And I mean, youdon't actually always have to have a paid coach, but you've gotta have somebody that's going to give you good advice, be able to listen with no judgment. but I think the best way they say, coaches, you need to start with somebody that you don't know that well.
And so they can really get to know you without any. preconceived, notions about who you are or what you do. So I think that's a beautiful thing.
Eric: one of the interesting things about it is I look at what people spend on dental equipment mm-hmm.
Anne: In their
Eric: office, and I look what they spend on CE and then I look what they spend on a vacation and some of these different things.
We gotta start prioritizing ourselves.
Anne: Gotta flip that a little bit.
Eric: we are our greatest asset. And if we're not gonna take care of ourselves, I don't know what we're expecting to happen in our practices with our families, with our relationships, all of that.
It's time to start taking care of ourselves.
Anne: In all capacities of dentistry, but especially as the leader, the leader has to lead first, we all know that before they can lead others. And I just think about my time in dentistry, you know, my 46 years in clinical hygiene and like the pulse of the office.
Is the pulse of the leader. And it, so important. And you think about that. I mean, I honestly, no one's ever said that before, Eric, about how you spend this much on equipment, you spend this much on ce, but what do you do for self-care? And I have worked for dentist that never take a vacation.
I don't think I've ever worked for a dentist that like took like two weeks off at a time. They feel like they can't. And that's just so dumb when you think about it. The pressures that you have and the.clinical chair, I should say. I hope so many young dentists are listening to this because they have a choice. And good for you that you made the choice. you were living your dad's dream. You know? It was so easy. Like, oh yeah, this is great. Oh gosh. You know, I'm, I'm sure all your classmates were like, oh my God, Eric.
He's so lucky. He got in with his dad. Dad bought a practice for him. He is all good, but I mean, when you think about what you got into, be careful what you wish for, right? Yeah. And,and then the fact that that's okay to be able to step away and then you were so brave, even. In your lowest low, I feel like you knew that you were meant for more.
and that probably goes back to third grader. I'm gonna show them I'm gonna do it. but you found ways. You found ways and,and you could just see in your, demeanor that you are at peace with yourself. And I'd love to see those little. Third graders, you know, see you now. I mean, you're, strong.
Eric: You,got a great voice, super speaking presence. I mean, again, if you wanna grab Eric for one of your speaking, assignments, please do. And, one last thing, and this is question number four. What is win the now? it's a hashtag. Tell me
Anne: about that.
Eric: I will tell you before I say that, my wife and I are taking three weeks in Utah in the end of September.
Anne: Oh my gosh.
Eric: Yep.
Anne: I'm so proud of you. have a little jealousy here 'cause I have my own business and I'm never taken three weeks. Tell me about it. What's, the deal?
What's going on?
Eric: Yeah, so my wife and I bought a property in Utah about four years ago.
Anne: Okay.
Eric: And our goal is to be out there 60 nights a year. So, that is where we recharge. That is where we hike, we do all the things out there. So I had to work really hard to get to that. And so I don't mourn any of the things that happened to me before because all that time we making some good decisions with finances.
So now we're able to do this. We denied some things before so that we can do this now, but I,can't wait. This will be the longest time I've ever been outta the office. Never been more than two. So this'll be great. But a super quick on what win the now is, is I would come home at the end of the day and my wife would ask me how the day was, and I would reduce the entire day to the worst thing that happened.
So I feel like when she said, how was your day? It was more like hours your day. Yeah. And she kind of block herself up. Gotcha. Win the now says is now, right now is the most important currency that we have in our life. The moment right in front of us mm-hmm. Is where all the magic happens. Problem is we're stuck in the past with what happened to us in the past.
You are not good enough. All that kind of stuff versus, or worried about the future, what's gonna happen tomorrow? Mm-hmm. Next year, 10 years. Oh, the election politics, all of this kind of stuff.
Anne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Eric: And we miss out on the now moment. When the now says now is the most important, and how can we find wins in the now?
So in dentistry, what do wins look like in the 15 minutes? 'cause I'm scheduled on the 15 minutes. How many blocks of that? Some do 10. We do 15. How can I find a win in that 15 minutes? Great conversation with my hygiene patient. Collaborative co-diagnosis with my hygienist. Learning something new about my patient, having a chance to interact with them when I'm doing treatment.
Anesthetic works well, we got a good result. Patient's happy. You hand the mirror and they're like, wow. Or they get done. And that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, you know? Yeah. The crownjewel of dentistry. Yeah. That wasn't asbad as I thought it would be. Yeah.We also take some losses though, but it's how we process those losses.
We take the losses. We ask one question, what can I learn from this?
when we ask that question, what can I learn from this? We turn a loss into a win. So it's how we change our mindset from being negative all the time to being positive. And it's been a game changer for me.
Anne: Wow. That's a, cup full of gratitude.
And, now I can't stop smiling from ear to ear. So you've lifted me up today too, Eric. I appreciate you so much. How do we find you? How does anybody listening here get hold of Dr. Eric Reer?
Eric: I like to post encouraging, uplifting things on,Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
So you can follow me on any of those. my website. Eric Recker.com is probably the easiest place to find me. I'm a very relational person, so if you just want to have a 30 minute conversation, let's have a conversation, see if I can help or not.
Anne: Oh, that is beautiful. I'm glad that we're friends.
I'm glad I got to meet you and, uh, I look forward to seeing the next mountain that you're climbing. of course it's gonna be tomorrow or today. it's still early that we're,taping this today, so, yeah, Just been a pleasure and thanks for mentioning a little bit about our community of Dental Entrepreneur, woman.
We've got a retreat in November in Charlotte, North Carolina. And if you're,if you want a community and you wanna lock arms with some amazing women in dentistry, doesn't matter what you do as long as you're a woman. Sorry guys. Oh, Eric, you're a do, did I tell you you were a dude the first time I met you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a proud
Eric: dude.
Anne: I'm so happy. DEWD, we've got 202 dudes now, so, yeah. We're going strong because the men in dentistry are wonderful as well and they support us and we, we love our dudes, but come and join us. If you're a woman in November, we'd love to have you. You can check that out on dew.life.
You can check out Eric's article in our spring edition of Dental [email protected], and most importantly, everybody out there, no matter what, keep doing you. Thank you so much, Eric, and I'll see you. I hope to see you soon in person on the road. Take care. Sounds great.
