Anne: Hello everyone. It is Anne Duffy. Welcome to the DE Podcast Dental Entrepreneur, the Future of Dentistry. I'm so happy you're here today and I have a very special guest for you. Uh, in fact, he wrote a wonderful article for our autumn edition of Dental Entrepreneur The Future Dentistry. So you'll be able to catch that article, uh, on our website, dental entrepreneur.com.
And, um, let me tell you a little bit about him before we get started. William S. Barrett is CEO partner and co-chair of the National Dental Law Group at Mandelbaum Barrett pc. A full service law firm in Roslyn North, New Jersey. He is over. He has over 20 years of experience representing a wide range of businesses and unique specialty in mergers and acquisitions.
He is the co-author of the DSO decision, winning answers from Every Angle and Pain Free Dental Deals. Please help me welcome Mr. William Barrett. Hi William. How are you today?
William: Hi. How I'm doing? Great. And how are you today? Thanks for having me on.
Anne: Oh, you're welcome. I'm so glad you reached out and I, I really love your article.
As we were talking before we came on, um, the podcast and started recording, you don't have any skin in the game, so in a sense, or, and no, that's not what you said. I don't have a dog of the fight.
William: Right. A horse in the race, a dog in a fight, whatever you wanna call it. I, I, I come at it from an unbiased viewpoint.
Anne: That's right. You do have skin in the game. 'cause you know, you're, you've got a business and you, when you, when you start representing people, you have it, you have their back. But I love that about, um, what you said, because we have been publishing for 20 years a very generic, unbiased, uh, magazine for, for the business of dentistry for young dentists.
We started out with those that are. Just graduating business 1 0 1, and we have rebranded in the last couple of years to the future of dentistry, and we're bringing in way more. Have a variety of articles and especially the DSO model, which it's lovely to bring an expert like you because our audience, um, that have been following us for all these years, there are some that are just getting out that are going to go into A DSO and others that have been following us for years that are looking to sell their practices to A DSO.
And so tell us a little bit about where you see, um, the current status of dental MA. The market and what factors are impacting it now, um, in the end of 22. And, and what do you see in the future for 23?
William: Yeah, so, you know, 2022 was a very, very busy year in the marketplace for dental mergers and acquisitions.
Um, in my 25 year career doing it, it, it, it was by far the busiest year. Um, this year has started off shot out of a canon just as busy, um, as last year. And in fact, it's actually a little bit busier right now because, um. Because there was no real threat to any kind of major tax code changes, um, certain deals that people were pushing for in December, pushed their way into January.
Um, so the year has started out very busy and I, I think it's driven by a, a number of things. Um, obviously right now the, you know, consolidation of dental practices is, is a, a very, very big thing. There's a lot of, um. Private equity dollars behind consolidation and, and if, and also, you know, at the same time, you have a, a fairly strong volume of what I call doctor to doctor.
Transactions. Um, because for those who are fighting for the preservation of private practice dentistry, they're also aware that they're competing in a market where consolidation is happening and entrepreneurial dentists are, are looking at, at the DSO model and saying, okay, how am I going to effectively compete and win the game?
Staying independent. One of the strategies to do that is to acquire other practices and to create those economies of scale. Um, you know, in our country in general, dental practices had, were very, uh, parochial in their development. You know, it wouldn't be unusual in a small town to have, you know, four or five different dentists in this, in a little town.
And, and when, you know, for, for many years. People contemplated. I, you know, a doctor comes out of school and would say, okay, you know, I'm gonna open a practice. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna go to work for someone and maybe get some experience and I'm gonna open a practice. That was the path. You're either gonna work with someone or open your own practice, and many did.
So that was a great slice of Americana. Right? Uh, and a, and a, and a great thing. But when you think about it in a cold-hearted, pure business sense. Think about the inefficiencies, right? You know, where with having a, a, a small dentist on every corner in town, um, you know, that's four different rents. That's four different sets of, uh, liability insurance.
That's four different staffs. That's every staff with an office manager, you could start going down the list of repetitive expenses and the inefficiency of it becomes glaring. So, so that's one of the driving forces behind consolidation. And when you take that coupled with those doctors who want to compete, you get this insane m and a market that's very, very active right now.
And it also drives, frankly, the value of dental practices and dental specialty practices higher at the same time.
Anne: Yeah, I think that's exciting because I, I really feel like most. Dentists went into dentistry because they wanted to be their own, um, the, the owners, right? Because I mean, medicine had gone to a different one to, on a different track and they, they had that entrepreneurial spirit somewhere in there or they wouldn't have chose dentistry.
And so I think it is, is really great. I think some of the, the sweet spots for DSOs, like you were saying, is a smaller DSO in. And the fact that they don't have to, you know, go to the bigger, uh, organizations, they can keep it small and still keep it, the culture, uh, under the wraps, if you will, and, and have it have their own style without just, you know, growing into something else and having no control whatsoever.
William: Yeah, no, I think that's true and I think, you know, to phrase it a different way, um, you know, for the private practitioners, it's really just taking a look at group practice, right? I think. Mm-hmm. At the end of the day, you know, what you're really talking about is instead of me practicing as an individual, what kind of economies of scale can I create?
Still staying independent, but in, in some type of group practice where whether it's general dentistry and specialty combining or it's just. Multiple general dentists combining, but being able to maximize the economies of scale and, and the fixed overhead, um, in a way that makes them more competitive while, while still being independent, if they choose, if that's their path for others who.
You know, are looking to, um, to cash out or to, um, you know, kind of dispose of all the administrative duties that they perhaps didn't really enjoy doing. Um, then, you know, the DSO model, uh, might be terrific for them. It just depends on what, what their goals are.
Anne: There's so many different flavors out there.
It's, it's unbelievable. And I love the idea of the DSO decision winning answers from every angle, because that is, as you were saying, a generic book on that. And I think there are so many, I'm thinking of the senior docs out there, really need to look at that before they even consider it, because otherwise, and I've had the experience of, um, a dentist that I worked for and brought in someone, um.
He was, it was, it was because tax time was coming, it was December 31st. I mean, he put that deal together in about two weeks to your point of, you know, how does the tax, uh, structure look like this year versus next year and the year after. And I don't think he gave enough thought to it and didn't do enough research to be able to maximize his 35 years of building community and culture and a practice, um, on, you know, basically on his own.
And it was almost like. After the fact and after the papers were signed, I think he looked back and he thought, you know, I should have used someone like you that is totally focused on. Dental, um, mergers and acquisitions versus, uh, his buddy who was down the street that tried to help him out and it really didn't work out.
I always have said that one of the main, um, themes of dental entrepreneur William has been use and work with people that know dental. 'cause we, it's a specific niche
William: and, and that's true and it's fact. Um, uh. Although self-serving, I laugh, you know, in our first book, Pain-Free Dental Deals. Yeah. Uh, for the first book that we wrote, there's a section when we talk about assembling your team, and it's one of the first things we talk about, which is, you know, don't have your sister-in-law or brother-in-law, the divorce lawyer, you know, handle your dental practice transaction.
It will probably not go so well. Um, it doesn't mean they're not great lawyers, it's just not their niche. And, um, when. When we did the DSO decision, um, and, and wrote that book that's now become, um, almost like a prerequisite if you, I, I tell clients, and even those who aren't clients, read the book, listen to the book, because you're, you shouldn't go into these transactions cold.
And, and what a lot of people don't realize is because these deals are backed by private equity, they're very sophisticated and a lot of times. Um, my doctor clients will, will look at their business and say, oh, you know, I've got a nice business. It's, you know, it's treated me well and it's, it's, it's been terrific for me and my family.
But, you know, it's, it's just my dental practice. And, and no, no, it's not just your dental practice. And when private equity looks at it, they're analyzing it like they would any other type of company or business. So all of a sudden you're embarking on a very sophisticated. Transaction. Um, there's often different layers of equity involved, um, with all sorts of different rights.
Um, it's not completely obvious or transparent what those rights are. The devil is buried heavily in the details. Um, so it really is true that when, when you're thinking about one of these types of transactions, you, you really do have to have experts representing you. And, and it's not. It's not like even doctors who were entrepreneurial who had maybe bought a practice at some point.
It's not the same type of deal.
Anne: Yeah. So I exactly like David and Goliath. I mean, somebody, they know so much more than, and you know, you don't wanna give them, um, you know, your p you don't wanna give your practice away some of your numbers. And I, and I hope that every will read your article, but it was, it's pretty mind blowing.
What a dental, what a DSO with that expertise. Feels your practice is worth what it, and Dennis probably doesn't even see the value there and could really short-changing himself or herself, uh, in the transaction without your help or without at least reading your book to get you started. Um, we always say they don't know what they don't know.
And DSOs haven't really been around. I mean, this is, I don't know how long have they really been so prevalent. I, I, I would say 10 years.
William: Yeah. So the, the key word that you said there is prevalent. Um, it's funny 'cause in the first chapter of the book we talk about the history of DSOs. Just, and, and actually the first DSO ever, um, was in California in the, in the 1930s.
Oh wow. Uh, didn't, didn't call it a DSO, but effectively it was. Centralized management of multiple practices, and it became a thing so much that California actually passed a law, not allowing a doctor to own more than two practices because it was so out of the box. Um. So, uh, that was a famous Dr. Amp who was the, the first person to ever have an essence of DSO.
And then you could look at the, in the nineties right? And Heartland and the emergence there. And there were other DSOs along the way that were developing at the same time. But it was a small group. In fact, one of of my friends, um, is a CEO and founder of, of, um. Of a, of a fairly significant DSO and he would tell me stories how in the early days when, when he launched, uh, that d that particular DSO, which is now, you know, um, frankly a billion dollar company.
Um. It was, he said, you know, eight people sitting at a dinner table who had different DSOs exchanging thoughts and ideas and, and comparing notes. So you're, you're right. The prevalence of it in, in my career, I always say that going back 20 years ago, one out of every 15 deals that came into my office might have been a DS O related deal.
Mm-hmm. Today it's like seven out of 10 that come in. It's. It's striking how prevalent it now is. Uh, and I think that that evolution has really occurred for the most part in the last 10 years. Um, it's, that's, the explosion has occurred in the last 10, maybe 12 years before that. It was kind of, you know, and for someone like me who's in this business who does a lot of dental m and a, to only get a DSO deal here and there, going back.
Over a decade ago, it kind of shows you just how, how materially it, it has increased. And you know, obviously now, um, you know, the statistics are constantly changing, but the last one I heard estimated 12 to 15% of dental practices throughout the country have been consolidated or a part of a consolidation.
Um, that's a lot, but it also shows you that there's an awful lot of. Of independent practitioners that are out there practicing that have not been part of consolidation yet.
Anne: Yeah. And are, and are starting to hear about it, right? I mean, and they do work. That's the thing, is they, they do work and, and one of the reasons I wanted to start to promote, uh, or at least give the stories, tell the stories of the DSOs is because there are great DSOs, there are not so great DSOs.
There are great dentists and there're not so great dentists. So I think. We have to all come together. You know, there was, there were the two different sides there for a while that all DSOs are terrible, but that is so not true. And especially with the debt that kids are coming out with, where the young dentists are coming out of dental school.
It's a great, uh, learning, uh, ground for them. Um, and then also just. Um, the way it is, the minutia of running a business now is not like you used to be able to put your shingle out. As long as you run a good street, street corner, you are probably gonna be pretty successful. Um, but the, the nuance of running a business and practicing clinically and, um, an excellent standard at excellent standard, um, it, it's not for the faint of heart and it's not all that easy.
It's nice to share some of the burden, um, with people who are, as you said, experts in the business. And
William: there's so much truth to that too. I mean, even just think of the simple issue of, uh, well, not so simple anymore. Human resources and, and employment laws. You know, if I open up a practice or I have a practice, and even if I only have three or four employees, I'm now subject to all the employment laws and the compliance and wage and hour and timekeeping and, you know, having to worry about lawsuits for wrongful termination, discrimination, harassment.
And you could go on and on. Um, I see these claims all the time because, you know, outside of doing m and a transactions, we represent and have represented over the last 20 plus years, over a thousand dentists nationwide. Wow. So I get those phone calls from my entrepreneur, dentists who are in private practice with, you know, lawsuits and other issues.
In fact, I was on the phone today with a client who, um, said that. It looks like there's a trial date being set for a harassment claim that was made against him, you know, uh, and he wouldn't settle the, the claim because he, you know, he, he didn't do anything. Uh, and it was kind of a shakedown. And now, you know, he spent, um, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in, in legal fees defending himself.
Uh. You know, it's, it's a terrible story, but it's not an uncommon story. So, you know, one of the advantages to DSOs is the, the unloading of, of a lot of the, the business administration responsibilities, things like all those compliance issues with employment laws and. And, you know, benefits plans and, uh, I mean the cost of health insurance, you could go on and on.
Oh, no, there, there's a reason why there's so much wind catching in the sails of DSOs right now. And, and, um, you know, as you said, uh, just like there's great dentists and there's not so great dentists, you know, there are some great DSOs and there are some terrible ones and, uh, you know, doing your due diligence.
And really taking your time with these transactions and making sure that, that you find the right fit, the right culture, um, you know, that is critical Oh, right. In any transaction, but especially these.
Anne: It really is because I, I, the people that I know that have done or, or bought and sold or whatever, you know, you wanna make sure that, that the 35 years you put into building something is going to last and your legacy will continue.
And, and that's, I think that is the key and that's why you need expert help to, to have you, you know, go through the, the, um, the steps that it takes to get in the right spot. It works for you and will keep your career, um, and your legacy alive. But I mean, now that with the recession looming and all of that, we've got a, you know, the, the economy's in kind of a, um, you know, a slowdown.
How do you see DSOs continuing to be active and in, and, and do you see that there's a slowdown in deal flow or valuations?
William: Yeah, so, so far, I mean, it's early, right? I mean, I, I think most of us believe, you know, that. A recession, so to speak, is already here. It maybe doesn't meet the technical definition of recession, but as you said, I think very accurately you're feeling the pinch, the slowdown and, and, and the economic challenges.
What we've seen so far is no slowdown in volume of transactions. Um, what I have seen though is a lot more abundance of caution. DSOs, there's a number of transactions I'm working on right now where the, um, the depth of preliminary questions before they even get to a letter of intent phase and doing a deeper dive and more due diligence.
I'm seeing a, a little bit more of that. I'm also seeing, you know, don't forget private equity. They, they use capital for these deals. They also borrow, and what have we been seeing in the last year? The in. The nonstop increase in interest rates. Now, eventually those increases spread out to all businesses and, and you know, private equity is no different, right?
As rates go up and the cost of capital goes up, what I have seen is, um, kind of the, uh, consistency or. Or, um, freezing, if you will, of the multiples being offered the price points or the, or the enterprise value that you're seeing. Um, groups are being more conservative about how far they'll go, so I'm seeing a little bit of a reluctance to reach for maybe a bit of a higher PR purchase price than a group wanted to, uh, offer.
Then maybe they would have a year ago where they might have reached a little faster and now they're kind of pumping their brakes. So I'm seeing consistency also in valuation where, you know, if I get three or four letters of intent in on a client's practice, you know, I'm sometimes, let's just make up a, I'll make up a hypothetical.
You know, the letters of 10 come in and all four are between, you know, a six times and a six and a half times multiple. Mm-hmm. That's telling you something where in the past I might have gotten anywhere from a six to an eight times multiple, depending on I. You know, if, if a particular organization wanted to be more aggressive or maybe this particular practice they thought, you know, fit their, their geographical footprint very well, there could have been a lot of different motivating factors.
Maybe they have a nearby practice and they have a long-term view that these could be merged together, but I'm not seeing as much of that, so I'm not prepared to say that pricing has gone down because I have not seen that. I feel like it has stabilized and it's gotten much more consistent throughout.
Different DSOs.
Anne: Yeah, I mean it's, it's kind of, it reminds me a little bit of the housing market, right? It used to be you just put your sign or get, get your sign out there and you've got like 30 bids and they're all over asking price, right? And people are fighting for it. They're becoming a little bit more conservative, which is really better for the economy or better for the profession, I would say.
Uh, but the, the, the, um. The honeymoon. I wouldn't say the honeymoon's over, but just throwing money at dental practices. That is, that's over. And I also think that's so important. Another little, um. Thread through that, William, is that they have to have someone like you that is, that's reading these contracts on a daily basis.
Go over it because there's so many little nuances to the contracts. And you, you know, you mentioned that in your article, um, on how you get paid out. What, what, um, you know, I, I can't explain it all. I was reading here. This is like really in depth, but you have to, if you're a seller. You know, you have to really make sure you understand what you're signing away.
Um, because again, you are signing your practice away to someone that has a, this business acumen and a lot of people on, on their side that know the speak the business, speak, the acquisition, the, um, and the, um. Merger speak that a, that a general dentist, uh, may not have. So I think that is really important.
So if a doctor is considering doing a DSO deal and he wants to go to marketplace, 'cause a lot of them are, I, you know, the people, people, people, it's like they get to the point where like, I, I'm done with people, I just wanna practice. And they wanted, they wanna do the deal. What should they do first and how, how can you help them?
William: So here's where I, when people come to me, or my existing clients come to me and they're looking for help on, on this exact question, you know, how, what's the best way to get started? I always tell them, I, I don't go into any kind of negotiation or as they say, you know, you don't ask questions that, that you don't already know the answer to.
So I start telling clients. They should conduct a self-analysis. And what I, what I do is I give them first a list of the, of the materials or the information that most DSOs are gonna ask for so that we could take a look at that information and see if there's any issues. Uh, but also just understand like the kind of data they're gonna have to compile.
But most importantly. Is you have to have a real understanding of your ebitda, your earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization. It is this number that DSOs are going to base their enterprise value and make their offer off of that number and, um. That there will be a multiple of that number offered.
And how high or low the multiple goes depends on a lot of different factors, right? You know, is it specialty versus general dentistry? Is it mostly fee for service? Is it heavily insurance based? Um, is the EBITDA a large number? You know that it's in the million or millions? Or is it a smaller practice where it might be two or three or 400,000?
These will all impact price, but what I tell clients is. You can't go to A DSO and give them a whole bunch of information in your tax returns and your profit and loss statement, and then get a letter of intent back where they've said, we're making you this offer based on this EBITDA and this multiple, and here's the offer.
And maybe that number is higher than you thought it would be throughout your career when you thought about it and you think. Wow. I can't believe somebody offered me that much for my practice. But meanwhile, it might be a terrible offer. Your practice could be worth significantly more than that, but you don't even know what your EBITDA is because you haven't done the analysis.
You're trusting a third party. And, and I can tell you on a, on a regular basis, not in a sinister way, but they have conservative models that they plug in using your p and l, that spits out a number. Later on in the actual transaction phase goes through a very, very deep analysis called the quality of earnings assessment, where they will ultimately drill down to the penny on that number.
But the initial offer, it's kind of an estimate or a guesstimate, you know, an educated estimate. So I tell my clients, Hey, let's go through that process ourself, whether it's using your existing account. Or a specialty accountant who comes in on a project basis, not a very expensive endeavor, to basically take your, your last 12 months or your last year and adjust it accordingly as if this were corporate America or as if this were a.
Post-closing, which means, you know, you, you engage in the process of adding back, uh, discretionary expenses that you know would not exist post-closing after a transaction. Like, you know, maybe you took a, a trip for continuing education and there were components of it that were really personal and not all business, but you took the whole thing as a business expense.
Not uncommon, but. That would be something that wasn't really, wouldn't be necessarily an expense post-closing that would increase your ebitda. Mm-hmm. Um, same thing if maybe you own the building that you're in and you're paying yourself a very high above market rent. When you sell to A DSO, you might adjust the rent down to market.
Because now that's less of a monthly expense that would actually increase your ebitda, increase your price. So that's where you start. You know, I knew there was a question, I knew I was gonna get to the answer in my long-winded way, but you start by knowing your own value. So now when you go to A DSO and you and you're looking for an offer and they come back.
You can say, well, here's my quality of earnings assessment. Here's my sales side, quality of earnings. I think my EBITDA is $200,000 more than what you're saying. And, and here's why. And I'm happy to share all this backup data with you. You now go into that negotiation from a position of strength because you know your numbers.
You're not just waiting to hear something spit out at you and say, oh, I, I had a client call me just recently. Do you think this is a good offer? I said, are you confident that that's your EBITDA number? I don't know. Oh, yeah. Oh my God. And they didn't know their EBITDA number. Their, their, their accountant said, well, you know, typically dental practices went for 75% of the average gross, and this is a hundred percent of gross.
So, sounds like a good deal. But guess what? Not a good deal. Because if you, if you had an EBITDA that was, you know, $700,000 and somebody was paying you a, a a seven times multiple. You know, and your, your annual gross was, was three and you could have gotten $4.9 million one times gross wasn't such a good offer, was it?
Anne: But yeah, and we're talking about a lot of money here to make a mistake and, and not, and, and actually be a little lazy on how you actually, you know, go into the transactions, right? Oh
William: my God. Spend a little money. I always tell clients, spend a little money, spend a little time upfront and go about it the right way.
Go to the marketplace. Knowing your information, having all your reports that, that, you know, they're gonna wanna see being totally prepared. It, it's a much different experience. And, and then as you said earlier, when you get to that phase, you have to be surrounded with the right professionals, your lawyer, your accountant.
Do they do these deals? You know, I mean, you may love your accountant and they may be fine, and you may use them for the rest of your life, but maybe for this event in your life, maybe you'll bring in a specialist for that event. No different than, you know, maybe I need an implant and not every dentist can can do the implant for me.
Maybe I need to go to a specialist. Um, you know, it's, it's really no different. Bring in the, the right accountant, the right lawyer, and, and your local lawyer who you've used for everything and you're gonna do a, you know, when you sell your house or whatever it is, great, fine, keep using them. But for this particular life-changing event, the, the single biggest asset for many doctors that they've created in their lifetime.
It's the time in your life to say, no, no, no. I am going to get the best experts to be on my team for this because there's too much at stake to. Hope for the best, that that would be foolish.
Anne: Exactly. It's like, I wanna have a root canal on my third molar by somebody that does them every day all day long and loves it, not, not, uh, the generalist.
Right. So I think that is so wise. And, you know, the other question that pops in, I, I'm gonna end with this. I don't think it's ever too early to start thinking about that elegant exit. When if you, I mean, if you're, you know, say you five years out, when, when is it time for them to start putting those things into place, William, to get the maximum value out of their practice.
So often they let, they let go, you know, a year, two years before they're gonna sell. And that's not the right way to do it. When should they get in touch with you?
William: So really I'll, I'll answer that a couple of ways. Um. As far in advance as possible. Uh, but one of the things to think about for all the doctors that are out there who are thinking, you know, I might want to explore one of these DDSO deals, it, it, it could be the right thing for me.
Keep in mind that in the current market right now, most DSOs want you to sign a five year employment agreement post-closing. So if you are sitting around right now and you're saying, you know, I think I'd like to retire in five years, or I'd like to slow down, I'd like to drop a couple of days a week in five years.
Remember that they're gonna want your current schedule as in place now for the next five years. That doctor has to get going on their process. Now, if you've got a 10 year time horizon, you're, you don't have a, a gun to your head, you're in a better, a better place because some DSOs won't even do a deal for less than five, maybe four years of employment.
Others, if they're willing to do it. They're gonna discount your practice. You're gonna get, if you say, well, I gotta be out in three years, they're gonna factor in a risk component to that that might say, Hey, we might not have adequate replacement in place, or, this could be an issue for us. If we're still gonna proceed, we're gonna have to look at potentially discounting this practice, you know, because we're gonna be assuming a little more risk than we want to because we know the doctor has one foot out the door.
Yeah. So if it's a DSO deal. You know, you gotta be thinking, you know, five years in advance, you want to be getting a deal done, hopefully. Um, and in doctor to doctor transactions, you know, I would say the time horizon is at, is at least as long because if you have a larger practice, it may require you to kind of bring somebody in and maybe start with a minority partnership where they have, maybe they buy in for 20 or 25 or 30%.
And it, it might be a process to get them to the point where the practice can sustain what I'll call like the rest of the buyout. Um, 'cause you could end up in a situation where maybe it's gonna be two doctors that have to buy you out because you've built the practice so large. Um, that's, that's a possibility.
Um. As much advanced, uh, as possible and, and understanding your numbers and how to increase your profitability and, and make you as you always want to be selling on an up slope, even if it's a slight or gradual up slope. You wanna be selling when things look good, you don't want to be selling. When it's like, well, I'd like to be retired in three or four years.
The practice is a little bit down, you know, and I'd like to get the best purchase price ever. Probably not gonna happen, right? Yeah.
Anne: That is such great advice. Oh, such great advice. So think about it. If you're listening to this on either coming in or going out of your career and, and, and how you wanna do that, the right way to do it, there is the right way.
And I think that, uh, William laid that out for you today. And so, uh, William, how do we find you? How do we get your books? Tell us about that.
William: Sure. Absolutely. So my book, um, it is available on Amazon, but a little bit of a secret. You know, if you reach out for us, uh, you know what you can do through our website, which is, uh, mb law firm.com.
Um, or you can email me [email protected]. We'll, we'll send out a courtesy copy. To the listeners and we'll also, we also have it in audiobook. Um, and we're happy to do that. And, and that's really the best way to get ahold of me is, um, either through our website, mb law firm.com, or, uh, shoot me an email [email protected].
I'd be delighted to talk to anybody about transactions. Uh, as you might have gathered, I kind of love this stuff. It's, it kind of makes me tick. Yeah. So, um, you know, it, it's always my pleasure to have a conversation and, um. You know, it's, uh, this is fun for me, so.
Anne: Well, I'm just so glad, I'm so glad that we could feature you in our, in our Autumn edition and especially along with, uh, you know, Jeremy Krell and, and Revere Partners.
We got a lot of these transactions and, and mergers and acquisitions going on in the industry, and it's lovely to have experts like you to help us out. So thank you for joining me today. Uh, reach out if, if to, William, if you would like to get some help and have a successful exit and entry into your. Into your profession.
So nice. And listen, everybody, the most important thing for you to do is keep doing you. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, William.
William: Thanks, Anne. Take care. Thank you so much for having me on.
