Anne: Hi everybody. It's Anne Duffy and I'm so happy you're here. Welcome to Dental Entrepreneur, the future of Dentistry podcast and I'm very excited because I have Dr. Bryan Laskin with me today. Hello Bryan.
Bryan: How are you? Oh, I'm doing great and thanks for having me on. I just love all the work you're doing just helping do a lot to move dentistry forward, so I appreciate the invitation.
Anne: Oh, it's my pleasure. Well, I think, you know, we just all work together to make this profession a better place to be and for not only ourselves, but for our patients. But I wanna, before we get started, I'm gonna tell our listeners a little bit about you, Dr. Bryan Laskin is a Minnesota dentist and a tech entrepreneur on a mission to help solve the biggest problem in dentistry, the lack of data accessibility through innovation, education, and standardization.
Creator of Lake Minnetonka. Dental. Upgrade, Dental Digital Nitrous Opera DDS Dental Standards Institute, and Co-Founder of Toothabs. Dr. Laskin is also an advisor and investor to many of the most progressive healthcare companies. He's the author of the Amazon bestselling book, the Patient First Manifesto and Dental Disorder, and the host of the.
Patient first podcast. So my goodness, you are quite the entrepreneur. I'm so excited. You're perfect to be on our podcast. And you have written in a couple of our magazines, a couple of our issues the most recent one was the spring of 23. And that was just a great addition and a great article that you wrote, the article was the single most problematic issue in dentistry that you likely have not thought about. And if you wanna read that entire article, go to our dentalentrepreneur.com and find it. But tell me what is that, what is the biggest problem that you see in dentistry right now?
Bryan: well thanks for the question. It's always weird having somebody read your bio for you, you know, but, The biggest problem, I would first say that the reason why people don't think about it, and the reason kind of why it, uh, came to me is because as you mentioned in my bio I, I am a dentist I've practiced at a very high level for over 20 years that I've developed several technologies.
And what I realized through putting those two together. Is some problems in the engine of the car, so to speak, of our industry. Mm-Hmm. Because I was both a driver for a long time, and then kind of a mechanic. And what that is, is the lack of data accessibility, interoperability.
If you think about it, way our dental records work in dentistry first they're so massively important. In any dental practice, if you're gonna provide care let's say you're gonna drive revenue in your practice to do that, we have to do procedures. To do procedures.
that, have good outcomes. You have to come to a diagnosis and every diagnosis. Is predicated on having the right information. And right now that information in most dental practices is spread across multiple systems that don't communicate to each other except by bridges that look like, I like to equate them to like that Indiana Jones bridge where it's like all rope and the panels are about ready to, break through the floor.
That's the kind of systems that are integrated in our industry. and then who owns this information? Legally, it's dental patients and then dental practices have a right to this information. And there's been federal regulation that we can talk more about that has made it so that what's going on is completely illegal in addition to being, moronic and does not allow for the quality of care our patients deserve or frankly, for the ease of operations that our dental professionals.
Deserve. that's the reason why I wrote my latest book Dental Disorder. Because if you think about it on a high level, might think, boy, it's really annoying that I have to ask if this software that I wanna use, this innovative platform integrates with my system. But people don't think about the negative downstream effects of that. Everything from like an opera DDS, we did a lot of paperless forms and the medical histories. Sometimes the other vendor would block you writing the medical history back. Not at all a technical barrier. It was a business decision that somebody made.
That put millions and millions of patients at risk. Because if you as a dentist looked at your practice management software, you'd be looking at an outdated medical history and not even know it. I mean, That's one example of a multitude. If you think about. Anytime you get a new patient in your practice, even if that patient was referred from a dentist across the hall, had been going to the same dentist for 30 years and then somehow went across the hall to your office, we act like they've never been to the dentist before. maybe we get a couple x-rays, maybe a treatment plan. That's about it. And. The first thing we do in any patient that we've been seeing for 30 years, if there's an issue, is we look back to see what's the history, There's so many negative consequences that people don't think about because that's the way it's always been. and we all know what's the best way to unlock the biggest opportunities is to solve the biggest problems. So by addressing what I believe to be the biggest problem.
Barrier dentistry will unlock. I feel like the next wave of innovation for our industry. Just like we went from an analog to a digital ecosystem, I believe we're gonna be switching right now from a digital to an interconnected, system where we're, we'll be more connected with our patients.
Practices are more connected, connecting medicine and dentistry. that's the positive spin on the biggest problem is it's also the biggest opportunity.
Anne: I just finished, forty-six years in dental hygiene. And I still remember when a patient would come in, first of all, a lot of the patients didn't even know the number or the name of their previous dentist if they moved across the country.
So we, I live in Charlotte. It's very transient. They couldn't remember their dentist's name, then you would call them, and you wouldn't be able to get that information right away. When you were talking about it in your article too, I was like, that makes so much sense.
Like if someone comes in for a root canal, you have to go back in the history and how do you just start something and do more treatment on something that would be, not the best treatment for the patient because you didn't look at the history. I mean it's almost like such common sense. And here we are in 20 twenty-three.
it blows my mind. Oh no, we're in 2024. Thank you. Yep. God, it just blows my mind that this hasn't been solved before. I'm like, so excited for this because it does make sense. I'm dying to know more about tooth apps. So in other words, we own our records, like I'm a patient and actually I'm going to the dentist tomorrow, believe it or not.
So I'm going to my, regular dentist, but I still can't imagine. Going to somebody brand new and he or she not knowing what I have had done, what the outcomes were of the treatment that I've had, and then start all over again. And you can't get records like that on a first visit.
it, it just takes forever to get 'em. And also, if you're in the same town and you know this. There are some dentists that won't give you the records 'cause they're upset 'cause you left them and then they have to fill out all sorts of words. I mean, it's just insane that that has been going on and not easily attained.
So you decided tooth apps is where this all began, for this new awakening and what just makes sense for people's health and wellness?
Bryan: a couple things. I appreciate your perspective on it, but I think what you said was actually a rosier picture than what's actually happening because you said it takes a long time to get the records.
I would say it's impossible to get the records. Okay. you know, you might get the latest X-rays maybe previous dental office goes above and beyond and burns a CD of all your radiographs, but probably not, not prior CT images. Certainly not STL files.
If you had a, CAD cam restoration done, that. Prep is a final cast that could be used the next time you have an issue with that crown. Wow. It's impossible even it's, didn't even think about that. you know, there's layers to this onion that I think because it's not been done before, people don't really think about it.
And when you were saying like, after you talk about it, people think, oh, this is totally obvious. And I get that. Every week, somebody's like, why hasn't somebody done this before? I equate it to, I'm old enough to remember the first time I saw a suitcase with wheels on it, it was probably in the eighties, And I thought, how many decades did people carry around Suitcases without wheels on them, things that are obvious after you see them are all over the place. this is one of those things. And so Tooth apps. Yeah. Tooth Apps has been in progress for a couple years, With the end result being, giving patients access to their data. And that's what I'm really excited about. that's what we're launching this month at the Chicago Midwinter is our patient application. However, it's taken a lot of work to get to the point that we can actually do this.
'cause if you think about it, how do you actually consolidate all of the data Then have it so that a patient has their version of their records and that they can do certain things, it's more than just innovation. We can't just create that, then nobody will use it. No. I've also been writing standards both for the American Dental Association and for Dental Standards Institute, to align the profession on how this actually happens.
I was the. co-chair of the working group and head author, on a standard called ODIN, the Oral Data Interoperability Network. It just got accredited about three weeks ago. From ANSI. And it basically defines how this all happens. How is data stored? How is it transferred?
How do we, match this John Smith to that There's a thousand details we've sort of outlined in, across. Multiple standards, that have now been vetted by the community. ' it's public, all standards are public. then we put that into action, into the apps.
And I should also mention, I mentioned it a little bit before, there's a, federal regulation called the 21st Century Cures Act. Which. Most people in dentistry haven't heard about, you can think of it, a corollary to HIPAA, and as soon as I say HIPAA, everybody's gonna like be rolling their eyes and groaning, right?
it's a corollary, but very different. HIPAA is about privacy and security of data. So keeping the information safe, which is vitally important. But what happened was because this security and privacy. Certain companies try to hoard the protect the data like you were saying, the dentists don't want to give the data out.
Companies in our industry have done that too. And then they try to sell that information, not even sell it to the, who needs it, just sell it to whoever will pay them for it. Yeah. yeah, the Twenty-First Century Cures Act has made that illegal. And a single incidence of what's called information blocking, which is hoarding information that's not yours.
It has a fine of up to a million dollars. And so that's one incidence as a fine of up to a million dollars. I. Dental practices who don't release their records or do it in a timely fashion, which is been judged to be about 30 days or give incomplete information, which is basically a hundred percent of the time right now.
They don't pay a million dollars. The average practice has been paying between 10 and a hundred thousand dollars per record. But software companies can be the ones who do it, as their business plan. They're gonna be paying millions of dollars. Wow. Yeah. Toothpaps is a platform that brings it all together. So it's the engine that kind of helps this all work.
Anne: I would download Toothpaps on my phone and I would get all of my records. And then if I go and move to another dentist and they say well, do you have your records?
And I would say, yes, here they are. I would give them to the new dentist.
Bryan: Yep. We're enabling all of that. I, hello.
Anne: I mean, this, we are in 20 twenty-four, and now we're finally having something that we can do that and actually have ownership of our own care because everybody says you have to take ownership of your health.
there's so many crazy things going on in the world that we have to take ownership of our health, Dental, the oral systemic connection. You know, We've been fighting for that forever, I love that you're involved with the ADA, because I believe in the organized dentistry, they've got the machine behind it and they need the oomph here of someone like you that's gonna take on this, problem.
And again, To Entrepreneur Nature. So I'm excited for this we'll put in the notes how to get in touch with you after this so that we can get more information and then you'll have to write something else for us for Dental Entrepreneur, because this is so timely in this day and age.
Bryan you know, you've always been on the cusp of what's new and innovating in uh, dentistry. I know you've got other things that you think are really important. For a dentist that's looking what am I lacking? What do I need for my practice to really, get up to snuff in this century.
And this year and then beyond. So what else is out there for right now? And then I wanna talk about, how you've got to where you are today. 'cause it's so interesting
Bryan: to me. Thank you. Yeah. I, think. I should mention there's two sides of the tooth apps equation.
There's the patient side that we've been talking about. Yeah. But there's also the practice side that we've had out there for about a year because it's not just patients that are blocked from information. It's dental practices. Yeah. If you were to look at your dental records right now, you don't actually have agency to actually do what you need to do.
To deliver the best care. That's why you have to ask, do you integrate with that software or, and oftentimes it's a poor integration and, just doesn't function the way that it frankly should. On the Tooth Apps platform, we have several things that unlock, for dental practices, new capabilities that were things like analytics, consolidated calendar, secure messaging with your team, things that enable your, team members to provide the highest quality of care too.
yeah, and I, completely agree with you, I think dentistry is at this point where. You know, We've just been used to crappy technology. And my vision is that you should run your entire practice from your phone. That's what we do. Everything else and have all of the great systems you use today, you have to switch anything you're doing today.
You plug them into tooth apps and everything just works better. A single login for everything. You can launch everything from the mobile application in tooth apps, There's a lot of functionality that, unlocks there. And, you know, the reason why I worked on this is I do, as you mentioned I, I wanna solve the biggest problems in dentistry.
And when I sold Opera DDS, which is a patient engagement solution, I really thought, what's the biggest problem that I'm relatively uniquely positioned to solve It came to me pretty quickly, frankly, this is what it is. Yeah.
Anne: It makes so perfect sense.
Thank God that you've, figured this out or, or at least you're getting there closer and closer every time. But I mean, you've always must have been an entrepreneur. when I read your bio, and I think that's so sweet that you're like, yeah, it is weird when someone else reads your bio, you're like, man, I did all that. But those are like big things. Bryan that again, you have to have that entrepreneurial spirit. What drives you did you have like a, Kool-Aid stand when you were eight years old? I mean, Where did it all come
Bryan: from? I am a totally stereotypical entrepreneur, which is as much a pathology as it is uh, a trait, right? I remember when I was.
I think I was 10 years old. I went around the neighborhood, putting flyers in people's mailboxes to babysit for $2 an hour, and I had never probably, Taking care of a child. My, in my, oh, it was the only thing I could think of that would people might hire me for. ' I didn't want to stand outside in a lemonade stand.
like, if I was gonna be doing the work, I wanted to get paid. And so, yes, I've always been an entrepreneur. Very creative. I started a investment group when I was in. 13, I think And so I went to dental school 'cause I thought it would calm me down, frankly.
and I wanted to help people. One of those things happened. I was able to help a lot of people or Emily able, able to help. A lot of people did not calm me down at all. Isn't that
Anne: so funny? Well, I know, but also, you dental school was probably a great avenue for you because most people, especially, in your age, your dental school graduation class, were going into dentistry because you could be an entrepreneur, you could own your own practice, and you still can obviously, private practitioners are still very, highly sought after.
But I mean, it, probably lent itself to that. But then again, when you get into the operatory. I think when you're an entrepreneur it's pretty tough to stay in the operatory 'cause it's more like a, You can walk around that operatory, but you don't get out of it. an entrepreneur I think seeks a bigger picture in a lot of ways.
And that's what you're doing right now. It's like you could treat one patient at a time, but this way you can help dentistry as a whole and all of your businesses have done that.
Bryan: Honestly, so you the ones that we list have done that. The ones that didn't work as out as well aren't on the list.
You know how that works. Oh, I do.
Anne: I do. Well, That's entrepreneurism. It's that roller coaster, right? some days are good, some days are bad. And if you don't wanna, they say if you don't wanna quit at least once a day, you're not really in the entrepreneur, arena. So, I do understand that too.
But it sounds to me like this is a problem that. Is just a no-brainer and it needs to be fixed. But then you surrounded yourself with very high-level people in the industry to take this to fruition and to see it really make an impact.
Bryan: Yeah, I think, I.
I am fortunate to be at a phase of my career that I don't have to be doing this, I want to be doing this, right? Mm-Hmm. if I'm gonna do it, I'm an impact junkie. I truly do wanna solve the biggest problems where I'm not interested in it. that's why I'm doing this is because I am an impact junkie.
I love helping people. And the larger the scale the better, as you alluded to. And I feel like if I'm gonna do that, look I loved practicing dentistry. I did. And I still love doing dental care. However, I don't think I'm an exceptionally gifted dentist. I, I look at other people's dental work I do sometimes go.
I don't know if I could ever do that. I do think I, I have a, gift when it comes to designing systems and solving big problems. I'm a guitarist too, and you watch some guitarists and be like, yeah, I don't know if I'd ever be able to do that. Right. I'm not that good of a guitarist. I like to think I can play, but there's just some people, and the same thing is true with some clinical dentists. I look at their skills and I go, I don't know if I'd ever be able to do that.
so we all have different skills that I think I, it took me about. Probably 40 years to find mine.
Anne: Yeah I understand that totally too. I mean, when you and I talked about strengths, that's the last time we had our conversation. Oh Your strengths do line up with being an entrepreneur and, you know, being that excellent dentist, there's so many different things that have to go into it that you don't even know about until you get into the trenches.
and you have to be an artist. You have to be an engineer. You have to be a lot of those things. And you don't necessarily have to be a visionary or somebody that wants to impact, or somebody that wants to lead. the best dentist, clinically are the ones that just absolutely love being in that little, arena.
And we need them for that. But again, you've taken the skills that you've learned and the, you have to have history. You've gotta get something underneath your belt before you can even understand what. Someone like you in the dental office and owning a dental practice really needs to be successful.
And it's not just great hands and a great eye for color and all of those things. It's more than that. you've got other gifts and good that you're using them but your education still carries with you to this day The knowledge of all the things that you're doing.
Bryan: I remember having an instructor in dental school who said when you graduate from dental school, that's where education begins. I definitely This is kind of embarrassing to say, but I, spent a lot more time on education and learning today than I ever did. When I was in dental school, because now I'm interested in the things that I'm learning about, things like leadership and, what it takes to build companies and entrepreneurship.
And, so in dental school I, was not nearly the student that I am today, I think that in most careers, that gets flipped around, sometimes the training stops especially today, I think the people coming outta dental school, that's really where the education begins.
Anne: Hi there. It's Anne Duffy. Our recording got cut a bit short, and I wanted to thank Dr. Bryan Laskin for coming on the podcast today. And thank you for listening in. If you wanna get more involved in our community, be sure to check the links in our show notes below. And most importantly, everyone, keep doing you.
Thanks, and I'll see you next time.
