Anne: Hi everybody. It's Anne Duffy. Welcome to Dental Entrepreneur, the future of dentistry podcast. I'm really excited to have my guest on today because this gentleman, Dr. Harold Sturner, was my boss for, I don't know, at least 15, 20 years. I worked in the practice 25 years, and I've been trying to get him on our podcast since the very beginning.
And so here we are, he just finished his day in the office, and I want you to meet Harold Sturner. Hi, Harold, how are you?
Harold: I am doing great. And how are you doing today? I'm
Anne: doing great. I'm just doing super. It's so good to see your face, even though we're on zoom. I'm not in the office. I miss working with you and for you in the office.
miss my patients. I miss the camaraderie had you, you really built something pretty special. where you are. And I just want to thank you again for that.
Harold: Thanks for saying that. There are plenty of patients that still ask about you, as you know. and they're always like, where's that blonde young one with all the enthusiasm?
Where'd she go? I'm like, she's onto a different career. Oh, that's me. All right.
Anne: The young one. I love it. We had a lot of fun and oh my gosh, I love coming back and seeing everybody because recently I was on a a call and they were talking about their office and how everybody has smiles.
And that's kind of what we experienced when we were working there with our patients and all that. But before we get started, I want to tell everybody a little bit more about you as a studio art graduate from the University of Iowa.
On a whim, he decided to take the DAT exam, and voila, 30 years later, he's been a Charlotte practicing dentist for 25 years, 6 boys, and married to his favorite person in the world, and as he says, I quote, I'm the luckiest person I know. Harold, so good to see you. And what a bio I thought you were going to do.
He was also the best voted the best dentist in Charlotte for I don't know, 10 years in a row. he's got a practice that is fee for service. That is phenomenal. Our collections were up. We had a great team that we worked with and with my friends and family, I'm always recommending you because you were and are the best dentist that I ever worked for.
And I'm honored and happy to share you today with everyone. We've had so many great discussions over the years. I love the fact that you went to art school. So a lot of our patients, are surprised by that, but tell me, how did that all come about? And I want to know, how the DAT came into your radar?
Harold: and we've talked about a lot of these things before, but I went to sort of an artsy high school, and grade school and middle school. you know, there's a lot of emphasis on art, music, writing and performance and stuff like that. If you show any aptitude in any of those areas, especially they really try to push you.
When I was in 10th grade, if you had your parents' permission, you, they had nude male and female models coming in that you could draw and paint and stuff like that. Yeah. in Rhode Island.
Anne: Okay.
Harold: Yeah, we were a couple miles from Rhode Island School of Design. Wow. We were across the street from Brown University, very liberal explorative type educations.
Some of our classes were at risd, some of our classes were at Brown. The Wheeler School. It was a great experience for pretty much everybody who went there. We're all very lucky to go. And it's not like your typical private school that's elitist. So much. It really was more about taking those kids, finding what their interests were, finding what their talents were, and really squeezing everything they could out of that.
I played music since I was a little kid, piano, clarinet, saxophone, and so they would say well, Harold, we're going to put a band together and you're going to do a studio album, and you're going to put the album for sale in the local record stores. So So in the midst of doing studio art, I was also doing that too.
And you're, playing on the basketball team, playing on the soccer team, playing on the lacrosse team, all those other things. you know, or playing in the, uh, orchestra for sound of music or any of those things. So you were really busy doing good stuff and some of the stuff sticks.
teachers would come up to me in high school and be like, Hey, I kind of want to buy that painting you have on display in the studio art display thing. I'm like, Oh, really great. You know, You started going late. Maybe I should try out this art thing and see how it goes in college. So my mom was also a master's in fine arts.
And so they were all for it. So I just said, I'm going to be a studio art major in college. by the time I graduated, I started to realize, okay, I really want to have a family. I really want to have a little bit more predictability in my life than a studio art major or an artist, the starving, struggling artist, a lifestyle.
I started exploring other things. And sitting there as a senior with most of my requirements done. And I go, I'm not done. I don't feel like I'm ready to go to that next step yet. So I said, what's the hardest thing I can be. Because I did have some scholastic aptitude and I wanted to give it a whirl, so I said let's do pre med.
So I took all the requirements for pre med, and my girlfriend at the time was in the hygiene program, getting her BS in hygiene at Iowa. Oh,
Anne: I'm learning a lot. Maybe I forgot about this, but I'll keep going.
Harold: You know, details.
Sometimes I leave out just because it takes forever. But, my girlfriend at the time was like, wow, you do all this cool jewelry and these cool little drawings and sculptures and things. You should look into dentistry because that's what dentists do is they're working in that smaller miniature type realm and it's very fit and finish oriented and all your stuff is like that.
at first I said, ah, how boring, I don't want to be a dentist.
But I still was doing the pre med thing, and I applied to medical schools, and I'm like, alright, fine. I'll take the DAT, she was like, oh, this is so cool, you know, I'm a hygienist, you can be a dentist. So I go ahead and take the DAT and the MCAT, and The DAT had a very elaborate part of the exam that was all spatial orientation and design and graphics and stuff and, it was really easy for me.
I didn't study for that, of course, but I just was like, okay boom, easy. And so I go to interview for a dental school like, wow, you really aced the DAT. I'm like, I did. Cause I was paying attention to the MCAT part, which I did just average on. so then I'm like, wow, these the people at the dental school were like really interested in the fact that I was an art major.
Like you're the only art major in the college. I'm like, that seems weird, but how could there not be more art people here? Science people don't know how to draw well, probably, and don't know how to sculpt stuff. anyway, so I. started to warm up to this whole dental school thing. And I said, they are very interested in me.
Let's, go ahead and do this. Oh
Anne: my gosh. That is more information than I've ever. I love that so much. And that explains why you're such an excellent dentist. I will tell you, you know, a lot of, time people will go into a profession. not knowing what they're really good at and then building on that.
And here you are really accomplished in art, which dentistry is an art. I mean, It brings me to the question, is dentistry more of art or science?
Harold: that question because, if I was having somebody holding a handpiece in my mouth, With a very destructive burr tip at the end of it.
I would want them to have the skillset of being able to do the calligraphy for my wedding invitations. I would want that level of fit. I would want their hands to be like velvet. I don't want a lumberjack in there. I want to violinist. You know what I'm saying? Someone with hands and fingers and eyes that are to die for.
And from what I see when I have patients come from other offices, we got a few too many lumberjacks out there. It's a little frightening. To be able to have A touch you know, discern a quarter millimeter to be able to discern a margin with a 30 or 25 degree angle of inclination.
These are things that I, sometimes are just going to escape the one sided brain approach that a scientist might have that a science major might have and is very appealing to me. I don't think that the science in dentistry is that difficult to teach or learn. It's the. Doing the dentistry that's way at a high level, okay, dentistry is easy.
The top of the line dentistry is very, very difficult.
Anne: It's very artistic. Isn't it?
Harold: honestly you asked, is it more art, more science or a little bit of both? It's 80 percent art, at least if not 90%. There's a lot of science in it, but I don't have to know anything about it. It's not like I have to understand formulas or much about it.
if somebody cleans houses for a living, they don't have to know exactly how ammonia and bleach and all these other things work. They just have to know where to use what They just have to have a basic working knowledge of how it works.
And I think dentistry is that same way. For example, we just, the patient I just finished up with, we were replacing a crown on number nine. Oh boy. And previously I'd had to bond some to number eight on the mesial aspect on the corner where she had broken a piece. She had gorgeous teeth. And I had made the bonding to sort of match in with the crown, which wasn't that good, but I wanted her to look nice and be happy.
So I think it may have escaped her level of fit and finish. she just thought it all looked great. So when the crown had to be replaced because it broke off and the buildup broke off inside it, so we had to take it all apart and do it all over again. Now I can take the bonding, make it idealized for that tooth where it's absolutely perfect.
Now we're going to make the crown. match the tooth of the bonding. So we had started out making the bonding match the crown, now the crown is going to match the bonding.
Anne: And you were so excited,
Harold: weren't you? Oh my gosh, I've been talking about it all day. I know you, yes. The yin yang of that, being able to, I'm going to have the bonding match the crown, and then seven years later when I take it all apart, now the crown has to match this perfect bonding.
And she walked out going, Oh my gosh, this is way better than it's ever looked. I'm like, yeah, we know how to make a temporary look nice. And she looked better than she had ever looked. And now she's going to do a whitening and in office whitening. And we made one other temporary out of a bleach colored temporary shade.
So when she does the bleaching and the teeth are whiter, we're going to pop off the a one temporary and put a bleach shade temporary on. It's just an extra little bell and whistle. Doesn't cost anything. We just thought it'd be fun.
Anne: That's so beautiful. We want to have a healthy smile, but we want a beautiful smile and the artistic nature that you bring to that, clinical aspect.
it's really magic sometimes. I mean, because I know I've seen you get so
Harold: excited. Yeah. I'm right now. I'm almost like goose bumpy because it's so exciting to talk about. Yes. I've been talking about it all day and now I get to talk about it again. And you know, you have a nice young lady, she's 40 years old, beautiful teeth, beautiful smile.
And for her to be able to walk out and go, this is better than ever. And then it's going to get better again with the bleaching and then the final crown would be the And to just be able to give her that. a lot of people are going to be anxious about the whole thing. She's been with me a while.
You would know the patient. I'm not going to say her name, but you would know who. And, she's been here, coming here for 25 years or so, maybe even 35 years since she was little. She's 40. So she's been coming here since
Anne: she was a girl. No wonder you're excited. You've been dying to do this.
Harold: I've been dying to replace that crown for
Anne: I think, you're so conservative.
You don't usually replace them. I'm not going to. That's right. They're, they need replacing. That's right. Oh, my God. That's so cool. That's the thing we were talking earlier, isn't it? You've got a new associate. It's like, it's so hard sometimes to like, refer to others that have worked in the practice because, we believe, you've done such great work.
But again, now it's in your space now. It's like you are. Advocating for others and mentoring others and teaching others. And I could see that in your future because you get so excited. And I get excited about dentistry when I'm talking to you. I miss those.
Harold: We both do that to each other.
Anne: Obviously. I know. It's so funny. I still people say, oh, you missed. Do you miss clinical? And I'm like, yeah, I really miss it. And there's not a lot of hygienists out there. They're like, I really miss clinical, but I had the gift of working for you and actually not killing myself, five days a week, which that's another topic we can talk on another podcast that we have.
So another question I have for you. Okay. So we have, the dental service. and we have dental business. And are they the same or different? I know you have a different take on this. So tell me what your take is on dental service versus dental business.
Harold: unfortunately dental business has taken such a priority in most people's practices that the dental service has gone to seemingly virtual zero.
The way people practice dentistry these days is their business plan is what can I get away with? How many, incipient lesions do I see on a radiograph, interproximal, I can say, look, you need eight fillings. it's almost a daily occurrence where I have a patient who has now grown up, they're 26, 27, they move away, they see a dentist in New Jersey this is so typical. It's not even funny. They call me. They say, Dr. Sturner, dentists says, I have 10 cavities, at least eight up to 14. I'm like well, according to your chart, you've never had a filling before. And now you have 14. I look at the x rays that are two years old. I'm like, as of two years ago, you had none.
Dr. Sturner, they were asking me, am I like drinking soda all the time? But well, I work out and I drink Gatorade. and they're like, Oh, Gatorade. There you go. That's the reason I'm like, Okay, please do nothing. I'm gonna call the dentist. try to find out do some reconnaissance in the meantime When are you coming back to visit mom and dad?
Oh, it's you know, Thanksgiving's a month away I'm okay. Don't do anything. Come back. See me. No charge. I'll figure this out. Talk to the dentist They show me the x rays they have it's the same thing I saw You know little tiny things from 10 and 12 and 15 years ago when they were 10 years old 12 years old going through braces They ended up with a couple incipient lesions which I never treated because I didn't need to be.
And 12 years, 15 years later, they have the exact same size lesion with barely not even penetrating through enamel. And it hasn't grown at all. And of course I have this ability to see this retrospectively. I have all the x rays. That dentist should have asked me for those x rays. They could have done the homework themselves.
So I called the dentist they point out these things. And I'm like, gee, I really feel like it's aggressive. And the risk of a, of an interproximal resin leaking by the average dentist these days, I'm saying is one in four. There's a one in four chance that resin is going to leak because of improper protocol and isolation being the protocol that's most often violated.
And there's going to end up with a bigger area of decay and a bigger filling, if not a root canal. I've seen it happen too many times. Anyway, the patient comes to the office. I examine them clinically very, very carefully. I take new x rays, no charge. I look at everything. Not one thing I would do.
Not one thing. And so someone's recommending at least eight. Interproximal resins, and maybe an occlusal here or there on some pits, and I recommend nothing. This is the state of dentistry. A huge disparity in the recommended treatment. Going forward, this is horrible that consumers have, or patients, call them what you will, are faced with that sort of a disparity in the level of intervention.
And how can we go forward if there's that much disagreement on how to treat and take care of people? It's awful.
Anne: Yeah, that's heartbreaking, isn't it? Because I, I remember a couple of patients that I saw that had the fillings done and I saw the x rays before and I'm like, oh my gosh. And then, and they're just distraught.
They're like, I don't understand how this happened. They blame themselves. They feel terrible. Harold, this is the thing or I'm going to call you Harold because you know, we go way back. Please do. when I got into the DSO arena, I realized there are good DSOs and they're not so good DSOs.
And there's some good private practitioners, and there's not some good private practitioners. So I try not to blanket it all. But I feel you and I, it's just absolutely heartbreaking because you have a responsibility when you're taking a drill, like you said earlier with the drill, you're just killing a tooth, if you will.
And setting that person up for a lifetime. of dental work, So we have to like, if you're out there listening, do not want to be that kind of dentist and you don't want to go to that kind of dentist. And the smart thing that that patient did. Was to call you up and ask you if that's okay.
Because if you get diagnosed with that many cavities and you've never had a cavity, stop, drop . Call your and roll and roll. Stop, drop and roll because it, just get outta there. I've had the privilege of working for you, who has.
great integrity and I, you know, everyone that I say is like, if you need it, he'll tell you if you don't need it, he will tell you, but you'll be, a hundred percent sure that you are getting the best care that you stand by. that's called excellent dentistry. And that's what our profession needs more and more of.
I'm hoping. That'll happen. And I think, some of the things that you just mentioned earlier too, about, who is getting into dental school. They need to be having some kind of an artistic nature in their gifts. You've got to be able to see color.
the nuance of what it takes to craft. For
Harold: example, sometimes I'll, sometimes I'll say what about the texture? They're like texture, huh? Texture. Texture is so critical for the reflection of light to give you that natural look and some people just have no clue what you're talking about.
dentists. I'm talking about dentists. dentists don't have a clue.
Anne: taught it.
Harold: If, I see how dentistry tries so hard to maintain its doctor status and scientific background and evidence based and the reality is that I'm making stuff up on the fly 24 seven here on guard rails, which I've practiced incessantly for 25 years.
I expand the guardrails as my skill set increases and I've been able to do some things for like we had a person today We're looking at the tooth my associate and I my associate who's been out of dental school three years went to a two year GPR He's like most people would take that tooth out and do an implant I know that way the tissue would be structured as the implant would not be a very high level aesthetic result It's the easiest thing for the dentist to do because all they have to do is take an impression for a crown and get the crown to match if they're capable of doing so.
But to rebuild the tooth, even though it's damaged pretty heavily and understand physics, some of the science and understand shape and contour and, stress breakers about the prep and, to rebuild it in a way such that she's walking out the door and never looked better.
And it's done in one day and it's really hard to do. Don't get me wrong. It is for one crown prep, three and a half hours. This is a long time. If somebody says, how long does it take you to do that? As long as it takes, that's how long it takes me to do it. And sometimes you get, a three and a half hour crown prep.
Yeah, it may be not making the most amount of money on that. get that. But satisfaction level is through the roof for me. I can afford to send my kids to school. I can afford to put food on the table. I may not have a, summer beach house. Okay, but that's not in my list of things to accomplish.
Anne: It's not about the money. I mean, you, you'll take that much time to do something because you have to do it right. And you know how it is done, right? And luckily you can do it. But I mean, there's so many things now for efficiency and to do it faster and cleaner and, you know, make more money because it's technology.
Harold: So many dentists. Are reimbursed based on their production. I am too as an owner. I mean The more I produce the more I'm reimbursed However, there is no pull for me to do more faster so that i'm reimbursed at a higher rate. I don't care I cannot compromise The level of the fit and finish and the beauty of the dentistry for anything.
There is no satisfaction in there for me, but I know a lot of young dentists that have a big debt load Every month, and if they're paid on commission and paid in bonuses, they are going to strive to meet that threshold. And unfortunately, that is at the mercy of all these patients who get a lower level of care.
Anne: It sucks. Hopefully, they'll be listening to this and find more meaning into what they're doing. And sometimes they don't know what they don't know. they have a lot of pressure to meet those goals. And those are the DSOs, I will say that aren't so good that put that kind of pressure on a young dentist because they're learning, look, you've years and you're still learning.
Nuances on how to do things like it's, it's almost like, you know, there's no right wrong on how you do it. You, every patient's different. And I used to say jerry rig, but I mean, that's a beautiful thing in dentistry. If you know how to jerry rig it to make it look beautiful and be sustainable, have that tooth that you put together, it took you three and a half hours or whatever to last
Harold: a lifetime.
I'll give you an example of what's not done and what should be done. I'm the type of dentist on every single impression. I have the labs send the pour ups back and I trim my own dyes. And every dentist is going to know what that means. in addition to that, I realized that the technology that we use in order to fabricate a crown requires, an imaging pieced to image the, and I use PVS for all of my crowns because my lab will always tell me if you want with the good quality PVS, Harold, that you're giving me, if you use digital image takers to do your crowns, you will go down in quality.
And he's just saying that from someone who's been in the biz for 25 years and does a lot of lab stuff himself, so dyes And then since I know that there's going to be a laser scanner to scan my dyes I block out my own undercuts with composite very carefully so to take one case One bicuspid might take me 30 minutes to do one tooth when I'm in the lab to trim the dye and to block out the undercuts what I block out the undercuts with is the same exact flowable composite that I use for virtually everything in the office.
So every day, like today, I'm going to have to stay late and do a couple of dye trims and a couple of on these dye trims. And, not only am I going to be looking under a microscope at my dye, At the crown prepped and I'll be able to critique my own work and see is that margin, is the width of that margin correct.
Is the, axial walls at the correct angle of Is there the correct amount of parallelism? Is the taper correct? Do I have knee undercuts that are more than I would've liked? Is my margin angle the, at the correct angle circumferentially? Is it perfect?
I knew you were going there and then I use that composite to block out the intercuts. So I am practicing an extra hour a day or so using that composite It is very difficult to maneuver and use, but I'm practicing every single day and I've been doing it for 25 years.
how many more hours have I logged? If you're talking, let's talk Kobe Bryant. He was always a big fan of I'm going to get up at four in the morning and I'm going to have practice before the Laker workout. So I've already gotten another hour and a half. workout. I'm ahead of everybody else by an hour and a half.
If I do that every single day times 365, that's almost 500 extra hours that I've worked. No one will ever catch me by the time I'm 30 years old. And I asked my lab, how many people do this? How many other dentists? How many dentists do you have that you work with? He said, I have about 80.
And I said, how many people do it? He said, none. You're the only one. So if I'm the only one who's practicing that extra bit every single day, who's going to touch me in terms of my ability to create a perfect crown prep and a resin and interproximal resin that won't ever leak. How many people are going to be able to deliver that level of service and care to each and every patient?
Nobody. I'm sure there's somebody, but I just, if 80 dentists out of all 80, nobody else does it. anybody care anymore? I know.
Anne: I just can't figure it out. a couple of things here. Okay. So you love that too. So you love the little bit that's kind of one of your things.
Some
Harold: people have to, I want to, deliver the best possible product for someone who has taken the risk in trusting me to help them manage their oral care. Wow. You want me to be the one to oversee your oral care? Oh, my gosh. that's a big responsibility. And I want to make sure I deliver my best to you.
You trust me, you're going to get my best work. Yeah. How is it not done that way? I don't know.
Anne: You know what? Let's just hope that it will be done that way. for the future of dentistry and the future of our patients and just for you looking yourself in the mirror and using your skills and actually training young associates to follow in your footsteps.
That's really what it's going to take.
Harold: Knowing what you know about dental hygiene, wouldn't you agree that the entire patient experience coming in for recall is, hey, hygienist, start talking to the patient about getting that crown done and getting that filling done.
If you see any decay, point it out to them, talk to them about flossing. If they haven't been flossing daily. We may need to do this filling in this crown, the preparation process for getting the patient ready to say yes to a procedure starts the minute you walk in the door, doesn't it?
Yeah. That's not the way it's not the way we do it.
Anne: I don't think that's the way it should be done. And I agree, and I think that's why, you are so successful, and you have, had such a great practice and a great reputation, in the industry, and, you know, again, that's the way it should be done.
We should do our best for the patient first, and not take shortcuts, and that's what you're doing. You know how to do it right, but you also are good at it, and you just upped your game. And speaking of games.
Harold: Yeah, I want to say I gave you a Kobe Bryant reference to help you set way.
Anne: I know. That's what I'm just thinking. Speaking of games and speaking of Kobe. Thank you for sharing all that about, your clinical aspects of dentistry and your love for people and what you're providing Harold. I mean, that just really means a lot to me and it just makes my heart sing that I chose the right profession as well.
And I was lucky to work with you. But the, one of the things I wanted to share on this podcast. And one of the things I think makes you extremely interesting and successful is that you have a side gig. And Dr. Laura Brenner, if you're listening, she's a side gig queen. She needs to meet you someday because you've got a side gig that I've, just think is so cool.
We're a basketball family and apparently you are too. think every dentist needs a little side gig because then you don't sweat the small stuff. If somebody cancels you know, you've got a little bit of free time in your free time, you can do your little side gig and work on these things.
And you have built this incredible, collection, if you will. I mean, you walk in the office and it is like a museum. So how did you get and how did you get interested in collecting. I want to say it's art. You collect art, in the arena of
Harold: sports. I think that's fair to say, just to give you little quick story about how important basketball is in the family.
So I have six boys and a lot of them play basketball, not all of them. but the youngest one, who's eight years old, and I'm watching him shoot around. I'm like, Okay, how many did you make in a row? 1012? What? Yeah, I'm just fooling around. I'm like, Yeah. Okay. But that's looking really good. and you know, my 11 and 13 year old are hoop nuts and great.
And I love watching them. And then the eight year old says, dad, I'm not sure if I like basketball. And I said, sleeping outside is going to be tough for a while, but the minute you change your mind, you can come back in. So that's the sort of the joke that I use that I told him one time.
Oh my god, and he's good!
Just wait, he's just eight.
Anne: we got time. Yeah, we
Harold: got some time. We got time. But I would tell you that ever since I was six years old, opening baseball card packs with my brother, collecting baseball cards, Was just something I did all the time. And then I saw, Oh, there's something called a baseball card convention.
Dad, Howard Johnson's is having a baseball card convention. Can we go? Okay, let's go. So seeing some of the cards that I have at home. Let's say a Pete Rose card or an Eddie Murray rookie card. And I have them at home and 10 bucks. I'm like, Oh my gosh. I have three of those. I'm 11 years old, 12 years old, and I see 30 worth of cars, just from three, it blew my mind.
So I said, dad, we gotta go back to the house so I can get these cards and sell them, which I did. And then I went out and bought more packs of cards. And I got more cards that were value. I'm like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen or imagined in my life. That I can sell stuff for money, get the money, buy more stuff, get more money.
Couldn't believe it. That's what started the fever being able to buy more cards. I also was always a, Harold's lawn service, Harold's car washing service, so on and so forth. There's always sort of a You're very entrepreneurial. Yes, right. My, shoveling snow being the first one out there because, if not the first one out there, you're not getting it.
Yeah. For shoveling snow, as you know. know, the combination of being interested in earning money, being interested sort of business, and then being able to buy and sell the baseball cards. I kept doing it, kept doing it. So even in undergrad and dental, I would take some of my dental school loan money.
I would buy a few cards. And at this point, the cards were more expensive. It was more sort of like a Bill Russell rookie card or a Wilt Chamberlain rookie card. I'd buy it and then sell it at the end of the year for a 50 percent return. So my, I was able to utilize. Student loan money, pay off what I had to pay off, and then have some extra spending money to buy more cards.
So that has continued. Here I am now as a 54 year old, and I've continued to buy and sell cards on the side. And here's the beauty of it, and we've talked about this before. With dentistry, I may not be a football player, an NFL player, or a basketball player. Too bad I'm not a basketball player, but we use our bodies, to earn a living.
I'm not blocking anybody and I'm not running the ball and I'm not scoring baskets, but I am sitting in a chair bent over all day long and it's hard on the body and you got to take care of your body. And if you get an injury, God forbid to your eye, your finger, your hand your back, your head or hip, you could be out of work.
My backup plan is I have all these cards and different memorabilia pieces sitting around. I've become sort of an expert in the history of basketball. And through just the joy of learning about Will Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Michael Jordan, Larry Burhardt, Magic Johnson, etc. I only sort of invest in things.
I know more than anybody. And I know more than most about the history of basketball. I think this year I may have. I had wanted to not work for six months, I probably could have if I had chosen to sell even a small portion of the stuff that I have. Knowing that if I did get in a car accident, God forbid, or something happened, I fell off a bike.
I broke my arm, my right arm. that, you know, I hold a drill with, I would be able to, with six boys still be able to sell stuff on the internet and make a living with this sidekick. know, especially for a dentist to, you don't think about them as professional athletes, but they are definitely using their body to earn a living.
And if that body breaks down or has a problem, you have no recourse at that point. If you're the clinician. Which I am. encourage my current associate to think about this, that, know, he's young. He doesn't have to worry about it too, too much yet, but he has a baby on the way.
Okay. And there'll be more financial responsibilities. And future financial responsibilities best to, start thinking about whole side gig thing.
Anne: Yeah. you had a really great plan B that you're very excited about as well.
Harold: I don't want that to be my second career.
I'm not interested in that as a second career. I really would like to be doing stuff with for people and the card thing is just making money out of thin air. I don't, I'm not so
Anne: interested in that. Yeah, I know, but it's just nice to have something that is like a little bit of an insurance.
It gives you joy. It takes you out of the mouth.
Harold: Absolutely. It's essential. I think it's essential for someone like a dentist, like a doctor to have that backup plan. If you own the business as a dentist and you're not practicing anymore, fine. not as big a requirement to have the sidekick.
But I'll tell you during COVID, it sure saved my butt with having six kids.
Anne: and I think it gives you more balance in your career and you don't sweat the small stuff as much. I don't mean necessarily a plan B. I just mean if something happens, you've got something to fall back on for a short term, this is what I love about something like that side gig is that you can still stay in dentistry.
So if you decide you want to go from five days a week. to four days a week to three days a week to two days a week. You can still balance all that out because don't forget, you've got six kids to send through college. not to put a, bummer on that, but that's reality.
And it is true. I never thought about it, that you actually do use your To the point of an athlete. Yes, you do.
Harold: Um, and it's just, it's a marathon thing, I happen to work five days a week and someone might say well, that's too much. You give me your body some more rest.
understand all those things, but I do the amount of. yoga, stretching weights that I do every day, especially after work to try to unwind the damage or the stress that I put on my body for that day. I've worked pretty darn hard and I'll be doing that right after this podcast, to work to, preserve my physicality.
Now there will be a tipping point. I'm sure where, no matter what I do there's a decline my physical progress. I'm sure. And maybe I would go to four days a week, and I also don't work fast. that one crown today, three and a half hours. I'm not there the whole time.
My assistant happens to be making that temporary crown. But I am going to bend into whatever pretzel position I need to, to make sure like, this tooth needed to be done perfectly. All the angles, all the preparation points needed to be perfect for this to work. So I am going to do whatever pretzeling I need to do to ensure the success of that.
And it was a lot for that one. It was a lot.
Anne: I'm just so proud of you because not only do you do that for the crown, you're still, you're doing it for yourself to preserve yourself as a husband, as a dad, as a friend, as somebody that's going to live a long life and really contribute to our profession.
I'm just so thankful that you were here today to share that. when I, when we get. Our video crew in, I'd love to do a tour of the office just so everybody can see, not only just some of the magic of your pictures of, before and afters, but of some of the athletes that we've got displayed in your office are just fun and fascinating, especially for the young people that come in and they see all Oh, wow.
Dr. Stirner. He
Harold: is pretty cool. It's very fun for young and old alike, men and women alike. My husband
Anne: for one.
Harold: Yeah. It's a nice conversation starter. It is a nice thing to do while you're waiting for something or the dentist come back, you're free to walk around and look at some of the stuff.
And so many people have mentioned like, wow, this is just, it takes my mind off the dental thing. you mind if I take pictures? Oh, this is so cool. I want to show my college buddy, it has added a lot to the practice and separated us and made us unique.
Anne: it's, it's truly your brand, honestly. It's, again, when you think about the elite athletes, I would say you're in the category of elite dentist and I want to say, thank you. for being here today. This was so much fun. it's going to be posting out pretty soon.
So I'll let you know about that. How can people find you Harold, if they want to hear a little bit more about, dentistry or your side gig.
Harold: Obviously we have a website I would say the website is being revamped to you and I talked about this. I want to do some podcasting myself.
And so we are in the midst of revamping the website, but the old website is still up in the new, you know, there'll be a seamless launch. So it's Sturner dentistry dot com.
Anne: If you want a personal invitation, just reach out to me and I will, do that. How's that sound? And we'll have that in the show notes.
Harold: any dentists that are looking to sharpen their game, sharpen their skillset. like when my associate who is super talented, let's no mistake about it, sees somebody, he's like, Oh my gosh, I've never seen that before. What's that?
I never learned that. Yeah. Yeah. I made it up. How'd you figure it out? I'm like 25 years of expanding guardrails and practicing. mean, all of us, dentists, love to talk shop anybody who wants to talk shop about. how to do this, how to do that. How do you fix this?
we sort of pride ourselves on coming up with individual unique solutions for each individual unique patient. And so there's been a couple of times where specialists will be like, I've never seen that. And I don't know of anybody who can do that, except I guess you did it because I don't, I don't even know what I'm looking at, but it's so cool.
Anne: So you're willing to share your secret
Harold: sauce. I would love to. Hey, if I can steal even a small pearl from anybody else to use in my own practice to make my patients healthier, I'll be happy to and give full credit, of course, to whoever is willing to provide me with that pearl. I would love to learn a new little something.
Anne: Keep it up then. We just keep this conversation going. We're going to get you back on here again. honestly for all of you that are listening tonight, and today, most importantly, as I would say to you, Harold, keep doing you. Thanks so much for being here. I'll see you the next time.
Thanks Ann for having me. Yeah, you bet. You bet.
